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Meeting Minutes
Tuesday, September 22, 2009 at 6:30 p.m.
1. Introductions/Roll Call
Commission members present: Dwayne Stenlund, Jan Vanderwall and Jim DeBenedet
Commission members absent: Steve Gjerdingen and Joan Felice
Staff present: Duane Schwartz, PW Director, Deb Bloom, City Engineer, Scott Anderson, City Attorney and Tim Pratt, Communications Specialist and Recycling Coordinator
Others present: None
2. Public Comments
None
3. Approval of Meeting Minutes
July 28, 2009 Meeting Minutes
Member Vanderwall moved to approve the minutes of the July 28, 2009 meeting of the Public Works, Environment, and Transportation Commission. Member DeBenedet seconded. Member Stenlund abstained from vote since he was not at the July meeting.
Ayes: 2
Nays: 0
Motion carried
4. Communication Items
Construction Update
Duane Schwartz stated the street reconstruction project on Roselawn Avenue is near completion. The contractor is still working on restoration and final lift of asphalt. The project should be complete in the next couple of weeks. Some additional rain garden planting is also left to be done.
Jim DeBenedet asked when the contractor will be done with the wear course. Deb Bloom answered the contractor will put in sod first then complete the final layer of asphalt. All of the mill and overlay projects already have the wear course down along with curbs. The contractor is scheduled to be done with the wear course on the Roselawn project in early October.
Dwayne Stenlund asked if the project has salt tolerant sod. Deb Bloom answered the project has a highland sod. The Engineering staff has looked into adding salt tolerant sod to specifications in the past but has not been unable to get a large enough quantity to do a project.
Deb Bloom mentioned that staff is looking into a no-mow grass seed for the Twin Lakes project that is supposed to be more salt tolerant. Since this is not a rye grass it does have an October 20 deadline for seeding.
Deb Bloom stated that Iona Lane in the Twin Lakes project is complete. The right turn lane off of Cleveland is in place with wear course on it which is a part of the Park and Ride project located at Iona and Cleveland. The segment of Mount Ridge that has curb now has a base course down. The majority of the utilities have been completed for the Twin Lakes project. Curb should be installed in the next couple of days for the round-about and the east-west portion of Twin Lakes. Sample of the stained and impressioned concrete will be poured this week to have the color and patterns approved. On the north and south boulevards of Twin Lakes, a series of storm water features are being installed. Irrigation is also being installed. Trees and no-mow seed should be installed in the next couple of weeks on Mount Ridge. The Park and Ride on Iona and Cleveland should be open in November.
Deb Bloom stated Paper Calmenson Sanitary Sewer had some unexpected soil issues. About 50 feet from the man hole with the directional boring they ran into a rock. The contractor is working with MnDOT to piggyback on their road closures to complete the project. MnDOT will wait for Larpenteur to be open before they close Broadway to finish this project. At the west end of County Road B, the pavement is being removed from the section that connects to TH 280. The store sewer at Eustis St is being installed. A notice has been sent out to the residents. Ramsey County has approached the City about turning back this section of County Road B to the City for maintenance.
Deb Bloom stated about 20 raingardens are being installed for the Walsh Lake Drainage project located just to the south of Midland Hills, north of Roselawn Avenue. There have been some capacity issues with the storm sewer in this area. Planting will occur in the spring of 2010.
Deb Bloom mentioned the watermain project on Lexington Avenue, Oxford Street and Churchill Street from County Road C2 to Woodhill Drive. Currently there are two lengths of watermain about a quarter mile long that extend in backyards. There have been a number of watermain breaks over the last ten years. To resolve this issue there was a lining project that went to bid last year that was about $200 to $300 a foot to line the main. The Roseville Engineering staff felt the cost was too high. The project was re-bid this year to abandon both of the backyard mains and install new mains parallel on Churchill and Lexington and connect the houses on Oxford to the existing main. About 3,500 feet of main is being abandoned and about 3,000 feet of main will be newly installed. This will reduce maintenance costs in the future. The bids were opened for the project last week and the cost will be substantially lower than the lining project. The new watermain is expected to be installed and operational by the end of November.
Member DeBenedet asked if there will be road closures. Duane Schwartz answered there may be some short term closures. Deb Bloom stated there will be a pre-construction meeting before construction starts with the contractor, school district and post office to talk about road closures.
Duane Schwartz mentioned the Rice Street interchange project is on the fast track from a design standpoint. 30% of the plans are complete and being reviewed. 90% of the plans are expected to be complete by the end of the year.
Member Vanderwall asked if the Walgreens is planning on the taking over the North Heights Hardware. Deb Bloom answered they are and the vacant lot to the south as well.
Duane Schwartz mentioned there is a Lake Owasso Use Attainability stake holders meeting on Wednesday, September 23 in the Council Chambers to present the findings of water quality study that BARR Engineering did for Grass Lake Water Management Organization.
Deb Bloom mentioned the road closure on Cleveland Avenue for a sanitary sewer replacement. Paving should be done next week.
Duane Schwartz mentioned the Community Meeting Survey results. The City held four town hall type meetings this summer.
Member Vanderwall asked if a margin of error could be added to the results since only 55 people were surveyed. Hopefully any controversy can be avoided by adding the margin of error.
Deb Bloom stated in her capacity as the City Engineer for the City of Falcon Heights they did pervious pavement design for the City of Falcon Heights City Hall parking lot. This was completed in late August. The pavement was installed in the drive aisle so water from the parking spots drains into the drive aisle. An education sign will be installed as a part of the project.
Member Vanderwall stated it would be good if pervious pavement would be looked at when reconstructing school parking lots especially Brimhall Elementary School.
Member DeBenedet asked why the sidewalk along Hamline by the library is closed off. Deb Bloom answered she would check into why the sidewalk is closed. She stated Ramsey County did recently do some improvements to the sidewalk to widen it and make it more user friendly.
Member Stenlund asked when the 95% plan for the Rice Street interchange will be done. Duane Schwartz answered around the end of the year or early January.
Member Stenlund asked if it would be possible if the consultant for the Rice Street interchange project could come and give a presentation about the storm water pollution prevention plan. Duane Schwartz answered he would check on this.
Member Stenlund asked if the noise wall on the north side of Highway 36 was approved. Deb Bloom answered that it was approved.
Deb Bloom mentioned the proposed mill and overlay of the remaining portion of Snelling Avenue from County Road B to Roseville’s south boundary. MnDOT is considered this for next year.
5. Electronic Communication Policy
Scott Anderson, presented the policy for electronic communications. The policy is a set of guidelines and a list of things to be aware of. It is meant to raise awareness of some of the pitfalls that can occur with committees dealing with electronic media. The policy is intended for all councils and committees that are formed.
A point in the policy that is specific to the City Council and not committees is that communication with the public cannot be expected to remain confidential. This is due to the fact that City Council members are elected to their positions. There is a specific article of the Data Practices Act that states communication with an elected official even if it is private can be made public either by the sender or recipient. This is more of a warning to members of the public. Communication with committees is always public because of a default in the Data Practices Act that all government data is considered public unless there is a provision in the act that makes the communication private but there is nothing in there.
Member Vanderwall asked is it a free choice to make a communication public instead of private. Scott Anderson answered yes it is. Member Vanderwall then asked if a member of the public heard about a private communication but both parties wanted to keep it private, could it become public. Scott Anderson answered it could not be forced public. It would remain private until either the sender or the recipient decided to make it public.
Scott Anderson stated in order to avoid claims of violation of the open meeting law, Section 4 of the policy states try to make communication one way. An example would be if a committee member had questions or comments about the reading material Duane Schwartz provided to the Public Works Environment and Transportation committee it is encouraged that communication should be directed only to Duane Schwartz. Then Duane Schwartz could communicate back to the rest of the committee.
Member Vanderwall asked to clarify that Scott Anderson was not presenting this information to get an opinion. His presentation is more for instructions on communications. Scott Anderson answered this is correct and that he could also answer any questions about the policy.
Scott Anderson stated Section 5 of the policy states communications during a council meeting should be done orally, not electronically. Member Vanderwall asked if this means then that committee members should not look at incoming electronic messages during a meeting. Scott Anderson answered that his interpretation is if there is a full meeting with many people and someone sends an electronic communication with their opinion, the committee member doesn’t know who it is from until it is opened. It is not wrong to open the communication but the message that is being conveyed by communicating this way is that the person does not want the committee member to communicate back during the meeting.
Scott Anderson stated Section 6 is the part of the policy which describes the Open Meeting law. The Open Meeting law states business should be conducted in public. This gives the public a chance to give their opinion and makes council or committee members accountable for the decisions they are making because it is public. Discussions between council or committee members can happen outside of a public meeting however no decisions can be made during the discussion. If a discussion occurs outside of a public meeting between council or committee members and City business is discussed, that discussion needs to be mentioned in a public meeting so the public is aware the discussion took place.
Scott Anderson mentioned Serial Meetings which can occur with electronic communication. Serial Meetings are when one person goes to someone else to talk about something and then goes on to talk to another person and then another person and then a decision is made without the discussion being made public. Serial Meetings can be conducted by the same person or by several people.
Member Stenlund asked how many people are needed to make a public meeting. Scott Anderson answered it would be a quorum or more of the body where business is discussed or conducted or information regarding business is received. A chance social meeting at for example a party is not a meeting unless public business is discussed.
Member Stenlund asked if the Electronic Communication Policy applies to webinar meetings. Scott Anderson answered no it does not apply. There is a provision that states however that the policy would apply if there is a determination by the local government that an in person meeting is not practical because of a health pandemic or a declared emergency.
Member DeBenedet asked to verify that it is ok for committee members to send business emails to each other as long as they are routed through a center contact person like Duane Schwartz who can then add the email discussion to the next meeting packet. Scott Anderson answered to be safe committee members should try to not send emails to each however if an email discussion does happen it should be routed through the contact person to add it to the packet to be discussed in the public meeting.
Member Stenlund asked about the situation where the committee conducts part of the regular meeting at a project site. Scott Anderson answered that a committee can announce in the agenda of a meeting that they will be going to a site to do a viewing of the site at a certain time and place. This indicates where the committee will be and the public is welcome to join them.
Member Stenlund asked what the committee should do if the site is a closed site to the public. Scott Anderson answered the City would deal with the person from the public that demands access with the Board when this problem happens.
6. 2010 Budget Update
Duane Schwartz stated the City went with a different approach to the 2010 Budget process this year called Budgeting for Outcomes. The City hired with a financial consultant to help work through a program cost analysis for the tax supported programs in the City. The City Council will be asked to prioritize the tax supported programs to fit the set revenue program by the first week of December.
Duane Schwartz mentioned this report depicts how the 2009 budget was spent on the costs of programs and services. Earlier in the summer the Public Works department submitted a report that stated in order for the department to continue the same level of street maintenance it would need a 30% increase in 2010.
Duane Schwartz stated the City Council did set the preliminary tax levy on September 14 not to exceed 9%. Salary and benefit increases will be at or about zero for 2010.
Member DeBenedet asked if the 9% tax levy was a dollar amount. Duane Schwartz answered it would translate into a dollar amount when the budget is approved.
Member DeBenedet stated good roads cost less to maintain and asked if the Public Works department is saving money now to spend on street maintenance in the future. Duane Schwartz answered we are but that money is not being added to the street infrastructure fund.
Member Vanderwall asked if the City Council has this information about street maintenance when they are making decisions about the budget or does the Public Works Environment and Transportation Committee need to give the City Council this information again. Duane Schwartz answered he does not know what the City Council will need for input.
Member DeBenedet asked if the 9% increase was the maximum amount under current state law. Duane Schwartz answered the City Council is allowed to levy what they didn’t levy in 2009. There are also voter approved levies and police and fire wage increases. The maximum total levy with these exceptions is 14%.
Member DeBenedet asked if Public Works received a 9% increase each year, would the department be able to maintain its level of service. Duane Schwartz answered that it would.
Member DeBenedet asked if the Public Works Environment and Transportation Committee would have enough time to give the City Council recommendations about street maintenance costs for the budget in October. Duane Schwartz answered the timing would be fine since decisions will not be made until mid to late December.
Duane Schwartz mentioned the 9% levy amount is not final. It was set at 9% to leave room for flexibility when reviewing the budget.
Member Stenlund asked if traffic control management is an unfunded mandate by the federal government. Duane Schwartz answered yes it is. The City has retro reflectivity standards that need to be met.
7. Solid Waste Collection Information
Duane Schwartz stated according the report from Fort Collins, CO that was provided in the meeting packet that a large portion of pavement damage comes from waste collection trucks. This study attempted to quantify this by looking at an open collection system. Six solid waste trucks and six recycling trucks caused about 20% of the damage to the pavement.
Member Vanderwall mentioned the constant starting and stopping of the collection trucks affects the pavement in different ways also. This affect on the pavement was not mentioned in the report from Fort Collins, CO. Duane Schwartz mentioned the report from Fort Collins , CO does discuss other impacts on both streets and the environment from noise and air quality.
Member Vanderwall asked to go over the part of the report that talks about prices per resident. Tim Pratt presented a diagram comparing the prices and services of waste collectors in Roseville with four other cities in Ramsey County. The price of Roseville waste collectors is similar to Little Canada and North St. Paul. However these two cities offer curbside pick up which Roseville does not offer. The service level of Roseville is similar to Vadnais Heights and White Bear Lake but the Roseville price is higher than these two cities.
Duane Schwartz asked if the prices include taxes. Tim Pratt answered the all the prices on the chart include recycling and taxes.
Tim Pratt mentioned Vadnais Heights and White Bear Lake also offer a senior discount and waste is collected every other week. Member Vanderwall asked about the amount of the discount. Tim Pratt answered for waste collection every other week for a 32 gallon container the discount is about $8 a month less in White Bear Lake and $9 less in Vadnais Heights.
Member Vanderwall asked if discounts are offered with the waste collectors in Roseville. Tim Pratt answered there are some teaser rates for a limited time for new customers. The City of Roseville does not have any regulatory power over the rates.
Member Stenlund questioned how could the information from the Fort Collins, CO. report be translated so the general public will be able to easily understand it.
Member DeBenedet asked if the change in waste collection would be only for single family residences or would commercial locations be a part of the change as well. Member Vanderwall answered he understood from the report the change would only be for single family residents.
Member DeBenedet stated Roseville is currently using six waste collectors so if the City switched to organized waste collection the number of trucks driving down the road would go down to one. Member Vanderwall stated not all of the collectors drive down each road. At the most, there would be four waste collectors on a road so the number of trucks would change from four to one.
Member DeBenedet stated one of the reasons this is being looked at is to save the residents money. Another reason is to save the City money on street maintenance costs.
Member Vanderwall mentioned other reasons would be particulate reduction, new vehicle standards and noise reduction.
Tim Pratt mentioned yard waste trucks would add to the traffic on streets for waste collection.
Member Vanderwall asked if the yard waste trucks operate in the spring. Tim Pratt answered the yard waste collectors contract customers seasonally. Some companies have very few yard waste customers. The City has received many complaints that the waste collectors are collecting the yard waste in addition to waste which is in violation of state law.
Member Stenlund stated if the Public Works Environment and Transportation Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council it needs to be presented in a way that is easy for the public to understand the benefits. Other cities have not been able to make this change due waste collectors inundating the residents with flyers once the public finds out the city is considering to change how waste is collected.
Tim Pratt mentioned Woodbury is looking at limiting the number of licenses they will give for waste collectors.
Member Vanderwall commented on one of the reports in the meeting packet that it looks like some cities have been able to limit the number of waste collectors by not issuing new licenses. This means if one hauler leaves, a new one cannot takes its place. In one city they are not allowing a license to be transferred to a new hauler as a way to limit the number of waste collectors.
Member DeBenedet stated he was concerned that limiting the licenses could lead to having only one hauler and then there would be a monopoly which could lead to higher prices.
Member Vanderwall stated when looking at an organized waste collection system it does not mean there would only be one hauler.
Member Stenlund suggested a recommendation of an organized waste collection system should go to the City Council as something that needs to be done.
Member DeBenedet stated if a hauler is not performing well they might lose all or a part of their share until their work is brought up to standards. Parameters for performance would need to be set ahead of time.
Dick Houck, a resident, asked the commission to keep in mind the human aspect of limiting haulers instead of making a decision on numbers alone.
Member Vanderwall asked the resident how many more taxes would he be willing to pay to take care of the cost of street maintenance to keep the roads in good condition with six waste collectors on the road instead of one. Also, an organized waste collection system would offer every vender the opportunity to bid for a contract with the City. The companies that are collecting now could still be collecting waste they could have a condensed route and pick up waste for every resident on the street.
Member DeBenedet stated what is needed now is a more specific application of the Fort Collins, CO report to Roseville.
8. Storm Water Ordinance Update
Deb Bloom mentioned some of the discussions about the storm water ordinance were how should it be approached, how does it fit into the grand scheme of things and how can the code be better.
Deb Bloom stated in section 803 titled The Storm Water Drainage Section the code is broken into chapters. The Public Works chapter primarily consists of sanitary sewer, watermain and storm drainage. Eight proposals submitted by consultants are currently being reviewed by the Public Works staff. A recommendation will go to the City Council on October. Work is anticipated to start in November and be complete next summer.
Deb Bloom stated the Engineering staff has been looking the zoning code to see what is needed for storm water to make it more comprehensive. One suggestion for doing this would be to extract the erosion control ordinance from the zoning code and put it into the Public Works chapter. Another suggestion would be adding illicit discharge as a separate section under storm water.
Deb Bloom mentioned Ramsey County has an updated flood map. A notice will be sent to Roseville sometime in November. The City of Roseville will need to update its flood coverage or zoning code for a flood overlay. Roseville will now have flood zones. Flood zones are required to be a part of the zoning code.
Deb Bloom mentioned a topic that was talked about in a March meeting was the illicit discharge ordinance and the requirements for the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency pollutant discharge elimination system permit the City has to discharge into state waters. This year there have been some tests of the illicit discharge ordinance. The ordinance needs to be update to meet state standards. The Engineering staff looked at several other cities in the state of Minnesota over the summer and found that most cities have used a model template to bring themselves into compliance. Currently the illicit discharge is a part of the nuisance code. This is something the Public Work Environment and Transportation Commission could move forward with to update the storm water chapter.
Deb Bloom stated storm water drainage is something that will need to be done as a part of the zoning code update.
Deb Bloom mentioned the storm drainage code sets up the storm utility fee credits currently. There are two options for the storm utility fee credits. They could be in the code or they could be a reference to them like there is now in a stand alone policy. The policy could then be updated every five years.
Deb Bloom stated the staff recommendation would be to update the policy for the storm utility fee credits. The storm water drainage section should be looked at to verify it is still pertinent to current regulations.
Duane Schwartz stated not all research documentation was not provided in the meeting packet. The main goal was to provide an updated on the process.
Member DeBenedet asked if the City staff would work on the storm water ordinances in parallel or would work on the ordinance be part of the consultants responsibility. Duane Schwartz answered the ordinance work is not in the scope of the consultants work.
Duane Schwartz mention the ordinance update process does take several months and staff hopes to be complete by the end of 2009.
Deb Bloom asked how the commission members want the research information the City staff has gathered to be sent to them. Due to the amount of documentation that was needed for research it would take is a large amount of paper to distribute the information to each commission member. Member Vanderwall answered he would rather get information electronically as opposed to paper.
Member DeBenedet asked if the proposed storm water ordinance language had been reviewed yet. Duane Schwartz answered that the language had not been looked at yet. Member DeBenedet pointed out a spelling error in section 2 in the bottom line of the draft from May the line that states “creating nuisances and impairing other beneficial uses of environment whats.”
Member DeBenedet stated the line in section 10, “a threatened discharge that may present”, is too vague. Member Vanderwall pointed out a spelling error at the end of this same line, “to the heath and well being.”
Deb Bloom stated after the errors are corrected in the ordinance, it will be given to the city attorney for review.
Member Stenlund suggested adding photos to the storm water ordinance to make it easier to understand for the public.
9. Agenda for Next Meeting on October 27, 2009.
- Budget 2010
- Illicit Discharge Ordinance
- 2010 Work Plan
10. Adjournment
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